Trauma, Healing, and How Therapy Really Works

Podcast Guest: Matthew Austin
Podcast Host: Laura Duggan

In this episode of The Right Therapist, counsellor and social worker Matthew Austin explores shame, belonging, and the inner critic, and how these experiences shape identity, relationships, and mental health. Matthew explains how shame operates as a relational and nervous-system-based response, often developing to protect connection and belonging, even at great personal cost.

The conversation unpacks how shame lives in the body, why secrecy intensifies suffering, and how unprocessed shame contributes to anxiety, addiction, self-criticism, and disconnection. Matthew and Laura explore the differences between shame, guilt, and embarrassment, and how the inner critic functions as a protective part rather than an enemy to be eliminated.

They discuss attachment, parts work, and the cycles between the inner critic and inner indulger, highlighting why compassion, embodiment, and relational safety are essential for sustainable change. Themes of rupture and repair, power dynamics in therapy, and the importance of therapists doing their own inner work are woven throughout.

The episode includes a live therapy segment demonstrating how noticing bodily signals — posture, gesture, sensation — can soften shame and create integration without force. Matthew also speaks to intersectionality, LGBTQIA+ safety in therapy, and how real belonging can only deepen alongside authenticity.

Listeners will come away with a grounded understanding of shame as a survival response, how healing happens in relationship, and why awareness, compassion, and repair — rather than self-attack — are central to trauma-informed therapy.

Matthew Austin

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Talking Points

00:00 – 03:10 | Welcome to The Right Therapist

Introduction to today’s theme: trauma, emotional regulation, and the body’s role in healing.
How Source makes therapy in Australia more accessible and personalised.
Preview of today’s guest, a registered psychologist specialising in EMDR and somatic experiencing.

03:11 – 07:45 | What Is Trauma Really?

Understanding trauma beyond diagnosis: how the nervous system stores memory.
The difference between “big-T” and “little-t” trauma in clinical practice.
Why Source podcasts focus on education, empathy, and real-world therapy insights.

07:46 – 15:02 | Therapies That Help the Brain Heal

EMDR therapy explained — how eye movements activate neural reprocessing.
Somatic therapy and the connection between physical tension and emotional release.
Why psychologists and counsellors on Source integrate these methods into their sessions.

15:03 – 22:10 | How to Choose the Right Therapist

What to look for when selecting a counsellor or psychotherapist.
How Source filters therapists by therapy type, budget, and location (Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane).
Tips for preparing for your first online or in-person session.

22:11 – 28:20 | Real-World Client Transformations

Anonymous stories from clients who used Source to start therapy.
How trauma processing improved relationships, sleep, and self-trust.
Building resilience with professional guidance.

28:21 – 33:00 | Ask the Therapist Segment

Listener questions:

“Do I need a GP referral for therapy?”
“How does a mental health care plan work with Source?”

Expert answers clarify Medicare rebates, online counselling, and affordable therapy options.

33:01 – 36:30 | Takeaways and Next Steps

Key insight: healing isn’t linear — it’s relational.
Encouragement to explore the Source platform and find your therapist match.
CTA: “Start your therapy journey today — visit sourcetherapy.com.au or listen to more Ask the Therapist episodes.”

Transcript

Host [00:08]
Our guest today is Matthew Austin. Matthew is a Melbourne-based LGBTQIA+ counsellor and social worker with over a decade of experience supporting clients to overcome self-critical thoughts and cultivate compassion, calm and clarity. As a queer man, his lived and professional experiences with shame have shaped his commitment to helping others access their self-worth. He’s held senior roles at organisations such as Thorn Harbour Health and Queerspace, and has a deep understanding of the external challenges that impact LGBTQIA+ individuals’ sense of self.
Let’s get straight into it. You’re listening to The Right Therapist, where we demystify therapy.
We’d like to begin by acknowledging the Traditional Custodians of the land on which we live and work. We pay our respects to Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples listening today.
Host [01:05]
Welcome, Matthew.
Matthew [01:06]
Thank you, Laura — that’s very generous of you.
Host [01:09]
What do you love about being a therapist?
Matthew [01:13]
I think it’s a pretty unique job, right? To be able to sit with people, hear their stories, and hopefully offer something that helps. I’m learning with clients, and when you see something work — when it fits — the fairly quick transformation that can bring is very satisfying. It brings a lot of meaning to my life.
Host [01:41]
Yeah. It’s a unique part of the job — the satisfaction when, even in a single session, someone arrives dysregulated or just not okay and leaves feeling more grounded and capable. Or, of course, seeing that shift over a longer span of time.
Matthew [02:04]
Exactly. And a lot of it is people sharing stories they’ve never talked about before. That, in and of itself, can be a big relief.
Host [02:15]
That’s an interesting point around shame. Can you say a bit about what it means to share a shame-based story?
Matthew [02:34]
Yes. Secrecy and shame are like cousins. When someone brings a shame-based story, everyone’s nervous — it’sa big thing to talk about. It’s often sat in the system for a long time. Not everyone knows what a shame-based story feels like. Shame in the body is unique for everyone, but often it’s a sinking feeling in the stomach, the urge to disappear. Part of the work is helping clients identify those experiences as shame — giving language. That alone can help.
When I worked as a children’s therapist, there was a poster in the playroom: “Name feelings to tame them.” I think of that often — naming doesn’t make it vanish, but it helps.
Host [03:52]
My first real introduction to shame was in psychotherapy studies. We were invited to locate our own shame and I was like, “Haven’t got any. I’m good.” I knew embarrassment, but I didn’t get shame. Once we dove into it, I could finally locate it in myself. I think mine was boxed up, lurking in the depths, hopefully never to be seen. That was my strategy — and I think that’s the case for a lot of people.
Matthew [04:54]
Yeah. Brené Brown’s TED Talk helped me early on — around 2010. I devoured her work. She explains the difference between embarrassment and shame really clearly. Embarrassment is fleeting — like tripping over, red face, laugh, move on. Guilt is “I did something bad.” Shame is “I am bad.” Shame is a global assessment of self.
Host [05:50]
So embarrassment or guilt is situational — about what we’ve done — and shame is a whole belief about who we are.
Matthew [06:00]
Right. She also cites data showing that unprocessed shame correlates with higher rates of addiction and mental-health problems. A healthy sense of guilt, on the other hand, supports taking responsibility without spiralling into “I am bad.”
Host [06:48]
It makes me wonder about therapists’ shame, and how we can miss or avoid shame in therapy.
Matthew [06:58]
Yes. And that wasn’t a big part of every training.
Host [07:02]
We had a fair chunk on shame-sensitive practice — that we need to examine our own shame to even see it in others. Our systems protect us from feeling shame — in ourselves and others. As therapists, a huge task is to know our own shame so we can recognise it in clients and help them come to it.
Matthew [07:42]
And sometimes something in the room catches you off guard and you realise it’s a shame-based thing you haven’t fully worked through. Shame’s powerful — it can be unravelling in the moment. People say, “You can only take clients as far as you’ve gone” — or something adjacent to that.
Host [08:14]
Yeah — you can only go as deep as you’ve gone yourself.
Matthew [08:17]
Clients sense that. If a therapist hasn’t worked through enough of their own shame — say about sex — clients unconsciously sense it. The safety’s not there, so it won’t come up.
Host [08:42]
Which is why therapists doing their own therapy is so important. If I can’t hold my shame, a client’s nervous system knows it; their shame won’t come near the surface with me.
Matthew [09:11]
And that’s not a requirement in every modality.
Host [09:17]
It’s a real advantage of psychotherapy trainings. I always recommend people find a therapist who’s done their own therapy — you can ask. Therapy is a huge investment — financially, in time, and emotionally. It’s exhausting to tell your life story and then feel, “This isn’t the therapist for me,” and start over.
Matthew [10:06]
A consistent piece of feedback I get from clients who’ve seen others is: the therapist was too passive.
Host [10:16]
So people are looking for someone who steps into the space with them.
Matthew [10:22]
Yeah — collaboration. How are we going to work toward your goals? Ideally, the therapist adapts and is flexible based on what the client needs. We’re not really taught that at uni. If you can find someone who meets you where you’re at — you feel engaged, you know what to do between sessions — that matters.
Host [10:55]
Some people don’t go to therapy because they wonder how talking could help. I think they imagine the therapist sits there passively and just listens or affirms — which isn’t what you’re describing.
Matthew [11:17]
There is space for listening, but if that’s all that happens, it can be lazy. You could sit there, do very little, take people’s money, and call it therapy. Some clients do need a lot of space, but be explicit: What do you need? Do you want me mostly listening? Or something more structured?
Host [11:47]
So that could be what someone’s coming for — but you name it and check that’s the intention.
Matthew [11:54]
Exactly — get on the same page. Otherwise therapeutic drift happens: there isn’t a clear plan; or there was, but you drift far from it. The client keeps coming because they like you, but the goals get loose and there’s not much focus.
Host [12:34]
And clients don’t necessarily know how it’s supposed to go. They can keep coming for a year and think, “I guess this is therapy.”
Matthew [12:51]
Right — and over time you can get cynical and give up. That’s one reason I use outcome scales — a visual reminder of what we’re doing and if it’s improving.
Host [13:18]
So it’s explicit and clear — what we’re doing, where we’re going, what we’renoticing. Both therapist and client are active. I often reference goals we named in Session 1 and track how far we’ve come. It shouldn’t be a mystery how you’re going.
Matthew [13:55]
You’d hope not — but sometimes it is. Doing something isn’t enough to see change. So how do we elicit motivation and engage people?
Host [14:16]
What should a client do if they feel like nothing’s happening?
Matthew [14:23]
Talk to the therapist first. Bring notes if it helps. See how they respond: if they get defensive, that’s not a great sign. Ideally, they take feedback and adapt. Not every therapist will be your person — it might be an ending or closing session. But it’s great skill-building to say: “I’m not happy; this isn’t meeting my needs. I didn’t feel heard. I don’t get why we’re talking about childhood again — how is it relevant to my relationship now?” See how they respond.
Host [15:19]
Ideally the therapist really hears you, asks questions about what you need, and what isn’t working. If you feel their body seizing up — they’re offended — that’s a red flag. We’re human; it might flare for a moment, but…
Matthew [15:48]
If they can’t own it in the moment, that’s the issue. If you gave me feedback and I got defensive, I’d need to notice it, own it, and redirect to you.
Host [16:04]
Owning it might sound like: “I notice I’m feeling a bit defensive because I want to be a really good therapist for you.”
Matthew [16:14]
Yeah — that would be nice to hear as a client.
Host [16:19]
Even as a therapist, it would be hard to have that conversation. Many clients would rather ghost than say, “I don’t know if this is working.”
Matthew [16:33]
Ghosting is a big thing right now.
Host [16:38]
People think it only happens in dating — therapists get ghosted too.
Matthew [16:45]
Totally. And it’s linked to shame — how do you tell someone you’re not interested, kindly? If you don’t feel you have the skills, shame-avoidance kicks in. You don’t call back or rebook.
Host [17:09]
The client is anticipating the therapist’s shame, too, aren’t they?
Matthew [17:19]
Yes — shame is relational. On some level we sense how much shame someone’s worked through — whether they can non-defensively talk about their approach and adjust.
Host [17:35]
There’s also power in ghosting. A senior therapist once told me: ghosting often happens when there’s a power imbalance and the client can’t say what they need, so they exit.
Matthew [18:03]
Meaning too much power with the therapist and not enough with the client — making it hard to be transparent.
Host [18:17]
And sometimes the therapist is good and the client has benefited — they feel grateful and can’t name a rupture or a miss because they don’t want to be “ungrateful” or “complain.” Shame and power.
Matthew [18:45]
Yes. Particularly for queer folk seeing non-queer therapists. Many come to me because they’re tired of educating therapists about queer life. If you’re seeing queer clients, be across real-world stuff. It’s a power move to ask clients to educate you — while they’re paying — about open relationships, beat sex, whatever it is.
Host [19:40]
Right — you’re using your paid time to teach the therapist so they can then help you. As a generalisation, would you recommend queer clients seek a queer therapist?
Matthew [19:56]
Often yes — not always. If you’ve had to educate therapists, felt judged, or shut down, try a queer therapist. But not all queer therapists are the right fit either. At least ensure they’re queer-affirming beyond a rainbow badge. Ask: What lived experience or training do you have? Who have you worked with?
Host [20:43]
What additional training around queer mental health have you done?
Matthew [20:47]
Exactly — not just a one-hour webinar on pronouns. That won’t cut it.
Host [20:55]
Many therapists consider themselves allies and “queer-friendly,” but that doesn’t mean lived experience or actual training.
Matthew [21:12]
Agreed. And, controversially, if you’re an ally, work through your own internalised homophobia/transphobia and your own sexuality enough to be there for queer clients. As a gay man, I pick up quickly if a straight male therapist hasn’t done that work — and then it isn’t safe for me to open up.
Host [21:50]
What tips you off?
Matthew [22:02]
Subtle distancing — “bro” language, back-pats, leaning into a rigid masculinity. It creates distance. There can be intimacy between two men that’s non-sexual, but we don’t nurture it culturally. Queer clients feel that in our bones.
Host [22:30]
So it’s a kind of pushing away.
Matthew [22:35]
Yeah — “you over there as the gay client; me over here as the straight male — fixed, central, comfortable.” That’s another power imbalance. Many of my clients were bullied by straight boys at school; that lives in the body. As queer people, we’re always scanning for safety — even in Melbourne’s inner north. That vigilance comes into the therapy room.
Host [23:33]
That really touches on shame. In a heteronormative, patriarchal context, the environment itself is shaming.
Matthew [23:58]
And with the global lurch to the right, there are more instances of homophobic violence. Even if you’ve worked through a lot, new stuff happens. Shame doesn’t vanish — it has a function. Brené Brown says if you have no shameyou’re a sociopath. Shame evolved around belonging and survival. Historically, exile meant death. It’s deep in us.
Host [25:03]
So shame’s function is to keep us connected and belonging?
Matthew [25:07]
To regulate social rules. If I break them, exile once threatened survival. We need some shame — it’s about level. When I work with the inner critic — the thought-based manifestation of shame — we don’t try to delete it. We turn the volume down.
Host [25:47]
Yes! A lot of us, and a lot of therapists, try to get rid of the inner critic — tell it to shut up. What’s your take?
Matthew [26:04]
Sometimes you need to be firm to create psychological space — but that’s later. First, identify it; notice the bodily shame that comes with it. I’ve got a free guided meditation on my site about developing a relationship with that part — noticing it arise and negotiating with it. If you try to vanquish it early, it can rebound harder when you’re sick or rejected. So: build a compassionate voice alongside it. For me, when I make a mistake — disorganisation is a big shame theme for me — the “idiot!” voice pops up, and another voice says, “It’s okay. You’re five minutes late; no one cares.”
Host [27:36]
So you’re balancing it. And the inner critic is the cognitive manifestation of shame?
Matthew [27:47]
They feel intertwined. The critic is a thought-part that many people mistake as their only inner voice — it’s just the loudest. Shame in the body is visceral. They can appear independently or together.
Host [28:20]
And some people personify the critic.
Matthew [28:29]
Yes — imagine a character. In Big Mouth there’s a Shame Wizard — a creepy cloaked figure hovering and saying gross things to teens. I use that image: “Get away, creep.” Externalising creates space. If you don’t visualise, you can still work with the voice or the feeling.
Host [29:17]
For me, shame is the hardest feeling to sit with — which is why our systems keep us away from it. What do we do to avoid shame?
Matthew [29:54]
Drugs and alcohol. Sex. I often discuss the inner critic–inner indulger dynamic (from parts work/IFS). I got sober in 2021. Before that I worked full-time and got slammed by the critic all week. Friday brought an anxious excitement: the inner indulger arrives to relieve the pressure — “Stuff it, I’ll do what I want.” Pleasure-seeking, instant gratification, no limits. Then Saturday: hangover, regret, critic returns. Sunday: pull yourself together, repeat.
Host [31:10]
So two parts compensating for each other. The critic berates you after the weekend; the indulger sets you free on Friday.
Matthew [31:35]
We do need relief, rest, play and connection. The issue — especially in queer communities — is the lack of spaces to connect playfully outside sex, alcohol and drugs. In IFS, critic and indulger are protector parts trying to keep exiles(younger wounded parts) out of consciousness so you can function.
Host [32:21]
Right — at work we can’t have the wounded inner child running the show. Ideallyit’s unburdened and integrated (psychotherapy/IFS), or it’s locked in the basement. Protectors keep us away from shame: the critic pushes perfection; the indulger counteracts the critic; the exile stays locked. That’s how many of us function.
Matthew [33:02]
And intersectionality matters. The more minority intersections you live within, the more external shame you’velikely internalised — racism, transphobia, homophobia, misogyny. That makes it scarier to let the wounded parts up.
Host [33:47]
Because who can hold it in a society that’s racist, misogynistic, queer-phobic, trans-phobic? Shame threatens connection, so we lock parts away to avoid exile. Then the protectors work overtime to keep us functioning. It’s a lot.
Matthew [34:28]
It is. And then grief shows up when you contact a long-locked part — “It’s been five years since I let myself feel this.” It can feel like self-betrayal and self-abandonment.
Host [34:53]
We’re constantly choosing between belonging and authenticity — and we’re wired to choose belonging. When we do, it’s a self-betrayal.
Matthew [35:13]
Brené Brown says your level of true belonging tracks with your level of authenticity. If you’ve locked parts away, there’s only so close you can get to others.
Host [35:34]
So you might appear to belong, but you can’t truly belong if you can’t be authentic.
Matthew [35:46]
It’s a spectrum. You tend to spend time with people at a similar developmental stage. If your circle avoids shame, you’ll avoid it together.
Host [36:19]
Like a party era — surface-level connection where we all avoid shame together every weekend.
Matthew [36:34]
Which can be funny — and tragic — because as you age you become more aware of your need for depth.
Host [36:44]
Not everyone who parties is avoiding shame — but that was me in my 20s/early 30s. When I stopped drinking I realised there was stuff I hadn’t acknowledged.
Matthew [37:08]
Same. I got depressed for six months after I stopped — there was a messy house inside to clean up. It was hard.
Host [37:31]
I remember thinking life felt boring without alcohol — but really I was craving distraction. I translated discomfort as boredom. Even though I only drank on weekends, I looked forward to that distraction.
Matthew [38:02]
Yes — the emptiness that comes is part of it. It’s human, and not easy to move through without support — especially if you’re the first in your circle to stop.
Host [38:25]
And the judgment. It held up a mirror for some people when I stopped.
Matthew [38:33]
It gets tricky in friendships.
Host [38:36]
Mine evolved rather than fell away — but they had to evolve or end.
Matthew [38:46]
I had some fall away. Those friendships were embedded in that world. There was grief.
Host [39:01]
Alcohol can be a gateway to more “authentic” connection you can’t access sober — then you don’t remember it, or you feel shame about oversharing.
Matthew [39:19]
Brené Brown calls that floodlighting — oversharing beyond what the relationship can hold. The other person appears rejecting; you feel more shame; the story goes back into the basement.
Host [40:11]
So it gets locked even deeper down with extra rejection.
Matthew [40:19]
And you tell yourself, “I tried to tell someone — I was right, it’s gross.”
Host [40:24]
This can happen in therapy too. If you share and the therapist can’t hold it — even a micro-expression — you feel it.
Matthew [40:39]
We’re very attuned in those moments. Time slows, attention heightens. As a therapist you think, “I have to try my best to get this right — be empathic.”
Host [41:02]
The client has exposed something they’ve never brought anywhere else — we need to help them hold it.
Matthew [41:12]
Often the hardest bit is getting through that moment.
Host [41:16]
Hopefully most of the time the therapist does a good-enough job. Sometimes clients think what they’re sharing will be too hard for me to hear; but often it’s not. Still, they expect rejection because that’s what they’ve known — and therapists canmiss it.
Matthew [41:52]
Which brings us to individual shame triggers. Yours are different to mine. We’re not going to list them on our websites, so we stumble across them in the work. It can be messy. Hopefully we can do rupture and repair.
Host [42:26]
Say a little about rupture and repair.
Matthew [42:28]
It’s when something happens in the therapeutic relationship — hurt feelings, being misheard or judged.
Host [42:40]
Or you shared shame and they couldn’t hold it.
Matthew [42:45]
Ideally you talk about it. Acknowledge the rupture. The therapist owns their part, notices how they contributed, gets curious rather than defensive, and then does the reparative piece. Sometimes it’s as simple as a heartfelt apology — don’t labour it — and move on.
Host [43:23]
We tend to think we shouldn’t need that, but therapy is relational — sometimes we get it wrong. The therapist can also name it first: “I think I missed you there — what’s happening?” Having that conversation deepens safety. You know the relationship can be with something tough.
Matthew [44:03]
I think of it like scar tissue — tougher somehow. If a rupture-repair goes well, I know as a client I can get it wrong, the therapist can get it wrong, and we can talk about it. Trust builds. Maybe I can share more of myself.
Host [44:39]
We can have tricky conversations and move through them.
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Matthew Austin